Visit Josh of Arc's column >>

JOSH OF ARCHome Page

SELDOM n. (\ˈsel-dəm\): A discouraging word.
Add To Watchlist
Articles Posted: 73; Links Seeded: 1208
Member Since: 6/2006Last Seen: 11/06/2009

Klingon Vs. Esperanto - A Poll

Live Poll

Which Is Lamer?

  • Devoting years learning to speak Esperanto
    19%
  • Devoting years learning to speak Klingon
    81%

Total Votes: 21

Live Poll

Which is Lamer?

  • Being fluent in Esperanto
    40%
  • Being fluent in Klingon
    60%

Total Votes: 20

Dave's Dollar Cleaners and World Esperanto Headquarters

Photo by Gideon. (License: Creative Commons Attribution)

"Blach MIK! 'va hon-DA Shadow!"

Photo by Heather Kennedy. (License: Creative Commons Attribution)

advertisement

Ĉu vi parolas Esperanton?

A science fiction author I am embarrassed to admit I like to read(1) has a series of books in which the main character (and an after word in the books) espouses the virtues of Esperanto, the seemingly good idea for an international language made of an amalgam of other languages' words and structures that has been around for over a hundred years but that just didn't quite catch on outside of being admired by totalitarian despots like Hitler, Sun Yat-sen, and Stalin.

While it may contain some dumbed down linguistic elements that might come in handy some day if one decided to move onto learning Afrikaans, learning Esperanto is akin to learning semaphore in terms of practicality and usefulness. If the world ever adopts it, folks who have already learned it will be ahead of the curve, I suppose. But like semaphore is useful only for communicating from afar when pretty much every other of about twenty five methods of communicating that come to mind have failed and the message really does need to get through, Esperanto falls flat for me.

bortaS blr jablu'Dl'reH QaQqu'nay'(2)

At the same time, an article on the recent New York Comic-Con made me think of the legions of Trekkies, and more specifically the subset that have embraced the idea of the Klingon race. To get into the Klingon scene is, to me, probably the most "hardcore Trek" one can be. Taking it a step beyond the silly costuming and fascination with large bladed weapons are the folks who have (bless their little Asperger-like hearts) actually learned the Klingon language.

I have heard folks speaking in Klingon at least twice in the real world: once at a comic convention when I was about 20 and the other time at a renaissance faire [sic] where some Trekkies decided to pretend they were on an away mission on a planet that was eerily similar to 15th Century Earth(3). Both times were creepyand uncomfortable to witness... creepy and uncomfortable in the same way as watching someone reenact their abusive childhoods... in public... using interpretive dance as their medium...

Both Klingon and Esperanto are considered worthy of scholarly linguistic study. Go figure...

While Klingon appears to be essentially a way for mainly socially retarded fanboys to feel some sense of physical prowess, it at least has a culture — albeit fictional — upon which the language is based. The same can't be said for Esperanto, which is nothing more than a mishmash of mainly Eurocentric language rules and words. As far as language being rooted in culture is concerned, Klingon is one up on Esperanto.

I know I am @!$%#ting on someone's passion, but the point in favor of Klingon language being tied to a culture is overshadowed by Klingon "culture" being the Superbowl of Sad: a legion of out of shape, latex-foreheaded geeks dressed in S&M gear acting out a space fantasy distilled from Spartan legends. Despite being comprised mainly of people who tried hard to pass Spanish 101 for three semesters but couldn't so they turned to Esperanto to fulfill their language requirements, at least the Esperanto folks' motivations are buttressed by the utopian idealism of universal communication.

I can't decide which is more pointless: learning Klingon or Esperanto.

(1) That would be Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat series, which is only slightly less embarrassing to admit reading than, say, admitting liking goat porn.
(2) A really 1997-looking web page informs me this phrase means "Revenge is a dish best served cold."
(3) Update from a friend who knows too much about Ren Fests — I am told this is common.

  • 11 Votes
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top

What's this?
Who's leading the conversation?
This visualization below allows you to see the impact that each user has on the current conversation. The top row contains the group of users who have had the most impact, the 2nd row the group of users who have had the 2nd most impact (et cetera). Users with similar impact are grouped together, and the average score of the group is shown to the left of the group. The author of the article is also shown on the left, in their corresponding group. Each user's score is based on the number of comments the user has made plus the number of votes their comments have received. The scores are calculated relative one another, so while their absolute value is not particularly important, their relative difference does indicate a larger difference in impact on the conversation.
6.2
{"commentId":1729717,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

Thinking a bit more about it, I have heard Klingon being spoken, but never Esperanto. This speaks to the former being more prolific at least, but that can also be a vote either way for it being more pointless... or not...

- J

{"commentId":1729717,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
{"commentId":1729920,"authorDomain":"anthopos"}

If you want something truly pointless, learn Quenya.

{"commentId":1729920,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"anthopos"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
{"commentId":1730051,"authorDomain":"spookybf"}

bIjatlh 'e' yImev! tlhIngan maH! Hab SoSlI' Quch!

{"commentId":1730051,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"spookybf"}
  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:19 PM EDT
{"commentId":1730443,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
bIjatlh 'e' yImev! tlhIngan maH! Hab SoSlI' Quch!

Gesundheit!

{"commentId":1730443,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:44 PM EDT
{"commentId":1730672,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
bIjatlh 'e' yImev! tlhIngan maH! Hab SoSlI' Quch!

choSuvchugh 'oy'lIj Daghur neH

{"commentId":1730672,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
{"commentId":1730687,"authorDomain":"pmags"}

I always knew there was something alien about Dennis.

{"commentId":1730687,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"pmags"}
  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":1730477,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

Debating this a bit further with a pal, I have to give a nod of the head to Klingon "culture" if for no other reason than Christopher Lloyd playing one in Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. I don't recall him speaking Klingon, though...

- J

{"commentId":1730477,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:54 PM EDT
{"commentId":1730882,"authorDomain":"hircus"}

Might this not because the average Newsviner is geekier than average? I'd say that statististically, the chance of a random person being an Esperanto speaker is probably not that different from that of him/her speaking Klingon.

Now, since Klingon is so markedly different, the chance of you noticing a Klingon speaker would probably be much higher.

As for culture, I tend to find Esperanto-language sites and forums to be politically leftish. World peace and understanding, languages with mysoginistic constructs like genders are bad, etc. An influential, politically left newspaper, Le Monde Diplomatique, is available in Esperanto (though the translations appear to be lagging).

{"commentId":1730882,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"hircus"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:53 PM EDT
{"commentId":1761076,"authorDomain":"misslinguistics"}

My vote's in for Klingon. You're right, it certainly has more 'culture' than Esperanto!

In all that talk about 'world peace' and being inclined politically to the left, Esperanto is so Euro-centric its not funny! But that's the most interesting thing about artificial languages - the creators of each of them can usually only construct a new language based on what languages they already know and are exposed to. So you'll find that the structure of an artificial language will bear a very strong resemblance to the ones they are familiar with.

{"commentId":1761076,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"misslinguistics"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Sat May 3, 2008 5:14 AM EDT
{"commentId":1761344,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
In all that talk about 'world peace' and being inclined politically to the left, Esperanto is so Euro-centric its not funny!

No joke. I cross-posted this on my blog at LiveJournal. Somehow that got the attention of a group of hardcore Esperanto junkies (I am now going to call them "Espies"). I got death threats and everything. They are adorable!

-J

{"commentId":1761344,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Sat May 3, 2008 9:11 AM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":1761960,"authorDomain":"joseph-m-sixpack"}

Yeah, you better watch out for that Esperanto Mafia. I hear they're like the Cosa Nostra, the Triads, the Organizatsiya and the Yakuza all rolled into one. Yet unlike the aforementioned groups, the Esperantists can actually communicate with one another… ;-)

{"commentId":1761960,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"joseph-m-sixpack"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Sat May 3, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
{"commentId":1762386,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
Yeah, you better watch out for that Esperanto Mafia. I hear they're like the Cosa Nostra, the Triads, the Organizatsiya and the Yakuza all rolled into one. Yet unlike the aforementioned groups, the Esperantists can actually communicate with one another

Man, no joke that. I've taken to calling them "Espies" and have managed to piss them off even more today over on LiveJournal (link) by deciding that Klingons are cooler than them.

- J

{"commentId":1762386,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
  • 1 vote
#5.1 - Sat May 3, 2008 6:05 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":2896962,"authorDomain":"desideratist"}

I'm an Esperantist. I just thought you might like to know that "Klingon" is accidentally an Esperanto word. It is the accusative form of the word for "blade". And William Shatner was in an Esperanto language film called Incubus. And in Blade Trinity they watch Incubus and Kris Kristofferson speaks Esperanto. I got quite excited about it in the cinema. Which makes me an Esperantist geek but I don't care. :-)

Mind you, "Coca Cola" sounds like "kokakola" which means "like a chicken's neck".

Esperanto is fun. The last few days on the lernu.net chatroom I've been babbling away about such things as films, football, food and fun with Brazilians, Nepalese, Chinese, Italians, Germans... that's the whole point.

Yeah we're a bunch of geeks, but we're quite proud of it. I am, anyway.

Ĝis!

{"commentId":2896962,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"desideratist"}
    Reply#6 - Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:57 AM EDT
    {"commentId":5181017,"authorDomain":"neil-nachum"}

    As the UN representative for Esperanto I am not impartial. As I see it there is no debate between Esperanto and Klingon. iF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A DEBATE, it is Esperanto or English or French or Russian or any language that continues to spread by FORCE.  No, Josh of Arc, I assure you have not received any death threats from ESPIES, ESPERANTISTS, as we call ourslelves. DURING COLONIZATION AND SLAVERY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE RECEIVED DEATH THREATS IF THEY DID NOT PLAY THE GAME OF ENGLISH, FRENCH, SPANISH ETC.  Furthermore it is well documented that thousands of Esperanto speakers were eliminate physically or spiritually, by Hiltler, Stalin and the government of Japan, during WWII.  The founder of Esperanto (L.L.Zamennhof), thousands of Esperanto speakers and I  urge the world to practice THE GOLDEN RULE.  

    {"commentId":5181017,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"neil-nachum"}
      Reply#7 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 5:47 PM EST
      {"commentId":5185555,"authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}

      I'd focus more on your learning how to properly use your caps lock key if you want to be taken seriously in any language or pseudo language.

      {"commentId":5185555,"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302","authorDomain":"josh-of-arc"}
      • 1 vote
      #7.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:00 PM EST
      Reply
      {"canLink":false,"threadId":"255071","isPrivate":false}
      Leave a Comment:
      You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
      As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
      {"threadId":"255071","contentId":"1450302"}
      Start TrackingStart Tracking
      Stop TrackingStop Tracking